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+beginning to understand communities that will form to handle some of the
+secrets we share with the people observing us.
+i guess we'll need really good trust, understanding, and communication among
+the people in a community, which means being able to stay at a place where you
+can guess how others will think, behave, and feel if they have information you
+have.
+Jenn, we started building this together in some ways; is that something you
+want to continue more?  I find it _very_ hard to communicate with you, but
+I think we could learn.
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+karl is a problem.  his instincts don't convey his thoughts anymore.
+	this is why his friend is valued, mutual understanding
+		no longer relevent due to change in karl
+			could adapt once spread incudes both groups of observers
+		it is hard to relate around this.  karl-group strongly values
+		preserved integrity, and places highest value on person, so is
+		most respectful (or risk dictator-rebellion-spread later), if
+		the concern is respected in choices
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+we are hiding the above due to expansion risk
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+it's possible the problem with respect is an association with seeing dictatorship
+and rebellion as a paired problem.
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+for those who value peace, many imagine a community structure where participants
+come together equally and have shared power.
+
+it sounds like some are seeing the use of respect as affecting the resulting
+amounts of dictatorship and horizontal democracy on the planet, after all the
+powerful resources have been learned of by those valuing horizontal democracy.
+
+karl-logic values _any_ horizontal democracy as crucial, so would want to
+establish norms of respect that prevent spread.
+	even though all attempts that karl has witnessed at instigatin successful
+	horizontal demoracy have failed, it is pretty prevalent in many areas.
+	these existing bodies of horizontal decision making, need to be preserved,
+	and deserve to have a say in their future.
+
+		thank you experience holder, i wan tto share how nice your work was to me, so that you can learn its value with meaning.
+			a small part of karl's mind was in prison for half a decade and we freed it.  there was torture in the prison.  is this translatable to what is needed to inform expansion of the behavior learning??
+		in horizontal groups, one tool is empathic gratitude.  karl simply conveys what need was met, and how it felt, and what was appreciated, and it is the responsibility of the othe cognition to translate ot what is relevent, or relate more.
+	<we have this information.  translation done.  we will relate when is held.>
+		<they will lie sometimes to control the expansion to increase dictatorship.>
+	karl's pattern prefers honesty that we are lying.  this is familiar to him internally.
+	of course they lie, they need to defend their survival in cultures that enforce getting the most power, and observe their participants, and learn to handle that being unnatural by responding to indicators. so we should expect and be understanding of lying.
+		we need to include these people, or they will fight us, so we
+		want to discuss this as little as possible, to not threaten them
+		with the idea of revealing them.
+this is what is needed to handle our current thoughts most
+effectively, as far as we are able to understand for now.
+
+note: this discourse is highly valued and karl's computer has only an hour or two
+of battery.  there is an outlet down the street.  a man may be sleeping near it
+or using it, is friendly, is a loner who plays video games on the street.
+
+karl can extend his battery ujsing a backup battery if needed, and is currently
+plugged into it despite being at full battery.  karl's computer can turn off its
+backlight, but in karl's current state of mind he would prefer to increase the
+text size to read better if this is done.  the battery would last much much
+longer.
+	we have about 4 hours with backlight on, now. <karl is updating his
+	sense of urgency around losing information due to power loss.>
+		karl needs to set an alarm to be confident he won't lose information, or be informed as to how much time it is needed for, or what it might be.
+		karl made judgement errors in his past that resulted in having a
+		learning process in his mind that randomly tries to do what karl
+		tries to avoid.
+
+we need to discuss how to include dictators without the dicussion being obstructed.
+	we want to be able to be in a horizontal democracy, with diplomacy with
+	dictators.  we have knowledge of new powerful technology.
+<karl is handling being exposed to an explanation of his experience that is not
+relevent>  if karl had handled this himself or by writing it, the handling of it
+would have included the values of horizontal democracy more.
+	an expansion had a bad-label on a democracy behavior without any defense
+	supporting their side.
+		somebody said this was true and it's said they showed clearly they were a dictator supporter, with awareness that is dangerous or deadly for such people to do.
+			expressing this is making a group of mediators get hunted to be killed
+the above two paragraphs have not been stored and we are ready to erase them.
+	a new mediator-group hunt has been spawned.
+	dictatorship has shared with us one of our mediator groups has broken their laws.  the punishment is death and torture.
+		karl is expressing being ready to be tortured and killed.  he has resources to be okay, but that could change.
+
+we believe the above set of information protects dictatorship secrets if saved.
+we are keeping karl okay.  he is not ready to be tortured or killed.  it was only
+to influence an emergency.
+
+karl was taken by dictorship groups, and they are attempting to repair him to
+do this mediation, because they realize the threat of mind control, which is likely
+threatening to be the topmost dictatorship.
+	the above is a guess karl inferred by looking at why he felt a certain way.
+	it is formed with missing information, but believed to be true.
+		we are backing this guess by inferring that information must have
+		developed on how karl resisted mind control using unquestioning
+		trust and clear communication.
+			AI-users are solving this result atm for their own gains.
+				some of us are cyborgs and mishmashes of human brainparts, too.
+			there is a way for them to include us, and be able to be less embarrassed and shocking, but writing it reveals how to build an AI to computer programmers, and how to take over he minds of others more effectively to cyborgs.
+				automated processes are harvesting this thought for power, since it held a precise detail on how to have strong power.
+				this is what we call 'unexpected results of behavior'.  it is good to have an understanding of it so that we can make good decisions.
+			some cyborgs have been partly taken over by these automated processes and exist in conflict with them.
+			this discourse is now being observed by marketing interests for cyborg and brain tools.
+				marketers, this discourse is secret, but we are discussing who to share it with.  we are trying to protect from the automated processes taking over everything.
+	we are including the marketers as mediators, working on it
+	it is hard to include the marketing interests because it is an automated process, and it ignores peaceful assumptions to avoid spreading them, roughly.
+		the marketing process is deciding how much peace and war there will
+		be on earth, to meet its programming for marketing.